DETROIT, MICHIGAN – OCTOBER 15: Democratic presidential nominee, Vice President Kamala Harris (L) and Charlamagne Tha God pose for a photo before “We The People: An Audio Townhall With Kamala Harris and Charlamagne Tha God” on October 15, 2024 in Detroit, Michigan. (Photo by Aaron J. Thornton/Getty Images for iHeartMedia)

When journalism meets political warfare in the digital age: A lesson in fact-checking, accountability, and truth in the era of social media after Charlamagne Tha God’s interview with Harris in Detroit.

During Charlamagne Tha God’s interview in Detroit with Vice President Kamala Harris on Tuesday night, an exchange took place that I’d been bracing for since she announced her run for president:

Charlamagne: Have you seen the clip Madam Vice President from theGrio? It’s a clip that’s kinda of out of context, and it says that you won’t do anything specifically for Black people. Have you seen that?

VP Kamala Harris: I’ve not seen that.

Charlamagne: It’s a clip that has you saying you’re not going to do anything specifically for Black people.

VP Kamala Harris: Well, that’s just not true. One of the biggest challenges that I face is mis- and disinformation. And it’s purposeful because it is meant to convince people that they somehow should not believe that the work that I have done has occurred and has meaning ...

Charlamagne’s question referred to a clip from an interview I did with Vice President Harris in 2019 when she was first running in the Democratic 2020 primary for president. His comment that the clip was “out of context” is in reaction to an edited-down version of Harris’ answer that has been circulated online for years, posted by independent accounts – not a clip theGrio ever posted.

In 2019, theGrio published the full clip of Harris’ answer to the question. This is the text of that clip verbatim:

TheGrio: Do you support reparations for Black people?

Harris: Well, listen, again, we had over 200 years of slavery. We had Jim Crow for almost a century. We had legalized discrimination, segregation …And now we have segregation and discrimination, which is not legal but still exists and is a barrier to progress. We have disparities around housing.  We have disparities around education. We have disparities around income. And we have to recognize that everybody did not start out on an equal footing in this country, and in particular, Black people have not. And so we’ve got to recognize that and do something about that and give folks a lift up. That’s why, for example, I’m proposing the LIFT Act: Give people who are making $100,000 or less as a family a tax credit, which will benefit and uplift 60% of Black families who are in poverty.”

TheGrio: So by default, it affects Black families, but there’s not a particular policy for African Americans that you would explore.

Harris: No … If you look at the reality of who will benefit from certain policies, when you take into account that they’re not starting at the same place and they’re not starting on equal footing, it [The LIFT Act] will directly benefit Black children, Black families, Black homeowners because the disparities are so significant. So if we focus on the specific issues that have resulted in the greatest disparities, and we understand that that’s part of why we’re doing it … 

Listen, the reality also is this: Any policy that will benefit Black people will benefit all of society. Let’s be clear about that. Let’s really be clear about that. So I’m not gonna sit here and say I’m gonna do something that’s only gonna benefit Black people. No. Because whatever benefits that Black family will benefit that community and society as a whole and the country, right?

(END CLIP)

When first published, Harris’ answer faced backlash from some in the Black community who felt the reparations question required a clear “yes” or “no” or disagreed with her policy approach. For these critics, policies benefiting Black people but not explicitly for them weren’t true reparations, which they saw as both a policy and moral issue tied to what Black Americans deserve for the legacy of slavery.

As a journalist, I wasn’t surprised her 2019 response sparked backlash. Covering Black media, I’d seen reparations trigger debate. Her longer answer and word choices meant more could be picked apart. But journalists aren’t political consultants; our role is to present facts fairly, not hide information. Black media, in particular, frequently has to fight the perception that we exist as PR partners to promote interview subjects, from celebs to political leaders — or that we only do fluff pieces of journalism with softball questions rather than work as real journalists.

This sets us apart from hosts or personalities focused on entertainment or access. While media personalities can certainly function as journalists, a journalist’s loyalty is to the facts. That’s why theGrio needed to publish Harris’ views on reparations then. Interviews hold candidates accountable as their positions evolve. This can actually be a positive thing.

But it was when Harris’ full answer to the reparations got edited down by her critics – reduced to the 5-second portion where she said, “I’m not gonna sit here and say I’m gonna do something that’s only gonna benefit Black people” — that I became concerned.

Her political opponents and enemies from an array of interest groups were taking a line – out of context – to make claims about Harris that weren’t actually what she said. Thanks to social media’s power to share at the speed of light, an out-of-context clip can quickly become misinformation. Harris’ point that any policy that benefits Black people ultimately benefits America at large got lost in the haze of thousands of retweets and reposts on Twitter and Instagram, a twisted game of telephone that reduced it to “Kamala Harris said she won’t do anything for Black people.”

This is simply not true.

TheGrio has reported for years about Harris’ policies and proposals for the Black community. In that same 2019 interview I did, Harris discussed combatting the high Black maternal mortality rate, funding HBCUs, and more.

In 2020, I interviewed Harris, who was then still a senator and not Vice President to Joe Biden, about her COVID-19 anti-racism effort that was specifically aimed at addressing Black communities and racial disparities in treatment.

In that interview, I asked about the backlash to her reparations question. Similar to what she told Charlamagne in Detroit, she said she didn’t recall it but was clear on her record and commitment to Black communities.

TheGrio’s White House correspondent and managing editor of politics, Gerren Keith Gaynor, has diligently covered the Harris beat, reporting stories about her efforts to promote economic opportunity in Black communities while also following up about the reparations question in a recent NABJ-WHYY town hall.

DETROIT, MICHIGAN – OCTOBER 15: Democratic presidential nominee, Vice President Kamala Harris prepares to speak at “We The People: An Audio Townhall With Kamala Harris and Charlamagne Tha God” on October 15, 2024 in Detroit, Michigan. (Photo by Aaron J. Thornton/Getty Images for iHeartMedia)

This is to say that the information about Harris’ record is available for those who want it.

However, some people never cared about her record with Black communities, and/or they opposed her from the start and sought evidence to justify it. Using past interviews as political weapons is common, which is why politicians learn to spin old soundbites (just ask JD Vance about his “childless cat ladies” remark).

But in a historic election where everything is on the line, and the literal foundations of democracy are being shaken to their core, with a candidate like Donald Trump who has threatened to jail journalists, seek retribution against political enemies, and use the military for his own agenda (including against protestors) — discerning between what is true and what is false, becomes that more urgent.  

For the “too long didn’t read crowd,” let me sum it up clearly: Harris never said she wouldn’t do anything for Black people.

She insisted that doing things for Black people didn’t only benefit Black people – it benefitted all of America.

It’s up to you to judge whether you agree while also allowing room for new information about her positions that has emerged since.

In 2019, Harris did not answer whether she supported reparations with a “yes” or “no,” and she still isn’t. Perhaps that is a strategic political calculation.

Just look at how Trump’s campaign and Republican opponents online are dogpiling Harris right now for saying during the Detroit town hall that she supported studying reparations.

The idea of reparations alone is abhorrent to them, and they will use Harris’ openness to studying it to try to take votes away from her in a close election where every single vote counts.

In 2019, when I asked Kamala Harris about reparations, I was working as a journalist in its purest form. (Ironically, I once said on The Breakfast Club that I preferred journalism so much that I’d never want to be a TV analyst — tell God your plans, they say.)

But times change, and so do we.

In today’s world of extreme political partisanship and social media disinformation, truth means fighting relentlessly against misinformation and making sure facts aren’t lost in the noise.

I knew Harris would eventually face questions about that 2019 reparations clip, and I hoped she’d have a high-profile moment to set the record straight.

Now, it’s up to the public to base their choices on facts, not distortions — our nation’s future depends on it.

Natasha S. Alford is the Senior Vice President of TheGrio. A recognized journalist, filmmaker and TV personality, Alford is also author of the award-winning book, “American Negra.” (HarperCollins, 2024) Follow her on Twitter and Instagram at @natashasalford.

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